Source: New Zealand Parliament – Hansard
ORAL QUESTIONS
QUESTIONS TO MINISTERS
Question No. 1—Prime Minister
1. Rt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime Minister: Does he have confidence in the Minister for Disability Issues?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister): Yes, I do, and the Minister has a very important job to do, fixing a system that is, frankly, not fit for purpose, which she inherited from that member’s previous Government, and I am confident she’s going to do exactly that.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: On what date did either Penny Simmonds or her office inform his office that Whaikaha had changed entitlements to disability support services and respite care?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: I found out when it was released in the media.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Who made the decision to remove Penny Simmonds’ ability to make decisions around disability support funding or criteria without Cabinet sign-off?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: That is not what’s happened. All that we have said is that we expect major changes to front-line services across a range of portfolios that impact New Zealanders to be brought to Cabinet for a good discussion.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Well, was Nicola Willis incorrect when she said, “We’ve also directed, as a Cabinet, that any further decisions that the ministry makes about changing its criteria, its funding, needs to be properly consulted, properly [sequenced]. It needs to go [before] Cabinet before it’s enacted.”; if so, who made that decision?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: That is correct, but we expect all Cabinet Ministers to bring forward issues in their portfolios when they’re making significant changes to the front line for discussion in Cabinet.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: So why didn’t Penny Simmonds do that before changing those criteria?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: As we have said, she didn’t bring it to Cabinet, and as a result there was no Cabinet discussion. That is something the Minister has apologised for and she will do going forward.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Why should the New Zealand public have confidence in the Minister for Disability Issues when he’s, effectively, removed decision-making delegations from her?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: I disagree completely. All we’re saying is that all Ministers, on their portfolios, need to bring forward to Cabinet conversations around any changes to front-line services that are major and significant and that will impact New Zealanders. That didn’t happen in this case; the Minister has admitted that upfront, has learnt from that experience, and we’re moving forward.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Will he commit to restoring full eligibility for carers in disability communities now that the responsibility for that has been taken off the Minister for Disability Issues?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Oh, look, that is a mischaracterisation of the situation.
Rt Hon Winston Peters: Could I ask the Prime Minister as to whether his Government’s going to be guided by what may be described as the Roosevelt principle: that we’ll try our hardest; we may not always get it right, but we’ll keep on trying, other than saying that we’re perfect, never apologise, and say we’re the podium of truth?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: I think that’s right. I think when Ministers make mistakes, they admit them, and then they learn from them and they move forward. But what I’d say to you is important is that this is a Minister that is actually making sure there is more money going in this year than there was last year under that previous Government, and, importantly, in Budget ’24 there’ll be even more money in place for people who need the disabled support and resource they need.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Does he believe the Minister for Disability Issues’ claim that “since 2018, the number of people accessing disability [support] has increased by around 50 percent compared to population growth of 8.5 percent” is a sign that too many people are claiming disability support?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: What I’d say is what we have is a Minister who is actually ensuring there’s more money going in this year, over and above the Budget that the previous Government left us, and, importantly, is making sure there is more money going into Budget ’24. There is a review of disability services to make sure that, actually, money being spent has actually been going to disabled people to get the support and the resource they need. That’s a good thing.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was whether he felt that the Minister’s characterisation that the growth of around 50 percent in disability support compared to 8.5 percent over the same period was a sign that too many people are claiming disability support. The Prime Minister hasn’t even come close to addressing that.
SPEAKER: Well, that’s true, but the Speaker’s not the adjudicator of the answers, as you’ll be aware from your deep understanding of Standing Orders, and—
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Point of order, Mr Speaker. You might not be the adjudicator of the answers, but you do have to ensure the Ministers address the question that was asked.
SPEAKER: Well, that is true, and I think he did address it. In the end, that’s where it lies.